ΚΛ. ἀληθῆ λέγεις. ἀλλὰ τί καὶ φῂς τοῦτο τὸ μάθημα ὃ θαυμαστὸν μὲν λέγεις, προσῆκον δʼ αὖ μαθεῖν τοῖς νέοις, οὐ γιγνώσκειν δὲ ἡμᾶς; πειρῶ περὶ αὐτοῦ τό γε τοσοῦτον φράζειν ὡς σαφέστατα.
ΑΘ. πειρατέον. οὐ γάρ ἐστι τοῦτο, ὦ ἄριστοι, τὸ δόγμα ὀρθὸν περὶ σελήνης τε καὶ ἡλίου καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἄστρων, ὡς ἄρα πλανᾶταί ποτε, πᾶν δὲ τοὐναντίον ἔχει τούτου—τὴν αὐτὴν γὰρ αὐτῶν ὁδὸν ἕκαστον καὶ οὐ πολλὰς ἀλλὰ μίαν ἀεὶ κύκλῳ διεξέρχεται, φαίνεται δὲ πολλὰς φερόμενον—τὸ δὲ τάχιστον αὐτῶν ὂν βραδύτατον οὐκ ὀρθῶς αὖ δοξάζεται, τὸ δʼ ἐναντίον ἐναντίως. ταῦτʼ οὖν εἰ πέφυκεν μὲν οὕτως, ἡμεῖς δὲ μὴ ταύτῃ δόξομεν, εἰ μὲν ἐν Ὀλυμπίᾳ θεόντων ἵππων οὕτως ἢ δολιχοδρόμων ἀνδρῶν διενοούμεθα πέρι, καὶ προσηγορεύομεν τὸν τάχιστον μὲν ὡς βραδύτατον, τὸν δὲ βραδύτατον ὡς τάχιστον, ἐγκώμιά τε ποιοῦντες ᾔδομεν τὸν ἡττώμενον νενικηκότα, οὔτε ὀρθῶς ἂν οὔτʼ οἶμαι προσφιλῶς τοῖς δρομεῦσιν ἡμᾶς ἂν τὰ ἐγκώμια προσάπτειν ἀνθρώποις οὖσιν· νῦν δὲ δὴ περὶ θεοὺς τὰ αὐτὰ ταῦτα ἐξαμαρτανόντων ἡμῶν, ἆρʼ οὐκ οἰόμεθα ὃ γελοῖόν τε καὶ οὐκ ὀρθὸν ἐκεῖ γιγνόμενον ἦν ἂν τότε, νῦν ἐνταυθοῖ καὶ ἐν τούτοισι γίγνεσθαι γελοῖον μὲν οὐδαμῶς, οὐ μὴν οὐδὲ θεοφιλές γε, ψευδῆ φήμην ἡμῶν κατὰ θεῶν ὑμνούντων.
ΚΛ. ἀληθέστατα, εἴπερ γε οὕτω ταῦτʼ ἐστίν.
ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν ἂν μὲν δείξωμεν οὕτω ταῦτʼ ἔχοντα, μαθητέα μέχρι γε τούτου τὰ τοιαῦτα πάντα, μὴ δειχθέντων δὲ ἐατέον; καὶ ταῦτα ἡμῖν οὕτω συγκείσθω;
ΚΛ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
ΑΘ. ἤδη τοίνυν χρὴ φάναι τέλος ἔχειν τά γε παιδείας μαθημάτων πέρι νόμιμα· περὶ δὲ θήρας ὡσαύτως διανοηθῆναι χρὴ καὶ περὶ ἁπάντων ὁπόσα τοιαῦτα. κινδυνεύει γὰρ δὴ νομοθέτῃ τὸ προσταττόμενον ἐπὶ μεῖζον εἶναι τοῦ νόμους θέντα ἀπηλλάχθαι, ἕτερον δέ τι πρὸς τοῖς νόμοις εἶναι μεταξύ τι νουθετήσεώς τε πεφυκὸς ἅμα καὶ νόμων, ὃ δὴ πολλάκις ἡμῶν ἐμπέπτωκεν τοῖς λόγοις, οἷον περὶ τὴν τῶν σφόδρα νέων παίδων τροφήν· οὐ γὰρ ἄρρητά φαμεν εἶναι, λέγοντές τε αὐτά, ὡς νόμους οἴεσθαι τιθεμένους εἶναι πολλῆς ἀνοίας γέμειν. γεγραμμένων δὴ ταύτῃ τῶν νόμων τε καὶ ὅλης τῆς πολιτείας, οὐ τέλεος ὁ τοῦ διαφέροντος πολίτου πρὸς ἀρετὴν γίγνεται ἔπαινος, ὅταν αὐτόν τις φῇ τὸν ὑπηρετήσαντα τοῖς νόμοις ἄριστα καὶ πειθόμενον μάλιστα, τοῦτον εἶναι τὸν ἀγαθόν·
Clin. Very true. But what is this science which you describe as marvellous and fitting for the young to learn, and which we are ignorant about? Do try to tell us thus much, at least, about it, with all possible clearness,
Ath. I must try. The opinion, my friends, that the Sun and Moon and the rest of the stars “wander” is not correct; the truth is precisely the opposite: each of them always travels in a circle one and the same path,—not many paths, although it appears to move along many paths; and the quickest of the stars is wrongly opined to be the slowest, and vice versa. If these are the real facts and we imagine otherwise,—well, suppose we held a similar notion about horses racing at Olympia, or about long-distance runners, and proclaimed the quickest to be slowest and the slowest quickest, and sang chants lauding the loser as the winner, why, then, the laudations we bestowed on the runners would be neither right nor acceptable, though they were but mortal men. But in the present case, when we commit the same error about gods, do we not think that what would have been ludicrous and wrong there and then is, here and now and in dealing with this subject, by no means ludicrous and assuredly not pleasing to the gods, when concerning gods we repeat a tale that is false?
Clin. Very true, if the facts are as you say.
Ath. Then, if we demonstrate that they really are so, shall all these subjects be learnt up to the point mentioned, and, failing that demonstration, be left alone? Is that to be our agreement?
Clin. Certainly.
Ath. We may now say that our regulations concerning subjects of education have been completed. The subject of hunting, and similar pursuits, must now be dealt with in a similar manner. The duty laid upon the lawgiver probably goes further than the bare task of enacting laws: in addition to laws, there is something else which falls naturally between advice and law— a thing which has often cropped up in the course of our discussion, as, for example, in connection with the nurture of young children: such matters, we say, should not be left unregulated, but it would be most foolish to regard those regulations as enacted laws. When, then, the laws and the whole constitution have been thus written down, our praise of the citizen who is preeminent for virtue will not be complete when we say that the virtuous man is he who is the best servant of the laws and the most obedient;
ΑΘ. τελεώτερον δὲ ὧδε εἰρημένον, ὡς ἄρα ὃς ἂν τοῖς τοῦ νομοθέτου νομοθετοῦντός τε καὶ ἐπαινοῦντος καὶ ψέγοντος πειθόμενος γράμμασιν διεξέλθῃ τὸν βίον ἄκρατον. οὗτος ὅ τε λόγος ὀρθότατος εἰς ἔπαινον πολίτου, τόν τε νομοθέτην ὄντως δεῖ μὴ μόνον γράφειν τοὺς νόμους, πρὸς δὲ τοῖς νόμοις, ὅσα καλὰ αὐτῷ δοκεῖ καὶ μὴ καλὰ εἶναι, νόμοις ἐμπεπλεγμένα γράφειν, τὸν δὲ ἄκρον πολίτην μηδὲν ἧττον ταῦτα ἐμπεδοῦν ἢ τὰ ταῖς ζημίαις ὑπὸ νόμων κατειλημμένα. τὸ δὲ δὴ παρὸν ἡμῖν τὰ νῦν εἰ οἷον μάρτυρα ἐπαγόμεθα, δηλοῖμεν ἂν ὃ βουλόμεθα μᾶλλον. θήρα γὰρ πάμπολύ τι πρᾶγμά ἐστι, περιειλημμένον ὀνόματι νῦν σχεδὸν ἑνί. πολλὴ μὲν γὰρ ἡ τῶν ἐνύδρων, πολλὴ δὲ ἡ τῶν πτηνῶν, πάμπολυ δὲ καὶ τὸ περὶ τὰ πεζὰ θηρεύματα, οὐ μόνον θηρίων, ἀλλὰ καὶ τὴν τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἀξίαν ἐννοεῖν θήραν, τήν τε κατὰ πόλεμον, πολλὴ δὲ καὶ ἡ κατὰ φιλίαν θηρεύουσα, ἡ μὲν ἔπαινον, ἡ δὲ ψόγον ἔχει· καὶ κλωπεῖαι καὶ λῃστῶν καὶ στρατοπέδων στρατοπέδοις θῆραι. θήρας δὲ πέρι τιθέντι τῷ νομοθέτῃ τοὺς νόμους οὔτε μὴ δηλοῦν ταῦθʼ οἷόν τε, οὔτε ἐπὶ πᾶσιν τάξεις καὶ ζημίας ἐπιτιθέντα ἀπειλητικὰ νόμιμα τιθέναι. τί δὴ δραστέον περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα; τὸν μέν, τὸν νομοθέτην, ἐπαινέσαι καὶ ψέξαι χρεὼν τὰ περὶ θήρας πρὸς τοὺς τῶν νέων πόνους τε καὶ ἐπιτηδεύματα, τὸν δʼ αὖ νέον ἀκούσαντα πείθεσθαι, καὶ μήθʼ ἡδονὴν μήτε πόνον ἐξείργειν αὐτόν, τῶν δὲ περὶ ἕκαστα ἀπειληθέντων μετὰ ζημίας καὶ νομοθετηθέντων, τὰ μετʼ ἐπαίνου ῥηθέντα μᾶλλον τιμᾶν καὶ προσταχθέντα ἀποτελεῖν.τούτων δὴ προρρηθέντων, ἑξῆς ἂν γίγνοιτο ἔμμετρος ἔπαινος θήρας καὶ ψόγος, ἥτις μὲν βελτίους ἀποτελεῖ τὰς ψυχὰς τῶν νέων ἐπαινοῦντος, ψέγοντος δὲ ἣ τἀναντία. λέγωμεν τοίνυν τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο ἑξῆς προσαγορεύοντες διʼ εὐχῆς τοὺς νέους· ὦ φίλοι, εἴθʼ ὑμᾶς μήτε τις ἐπιθυμία μήτʼ ἔρως τῆς περὶ θάλατταν θήρας ποτὲ λάβοι μηδὲ ἀγκιστρείας μηδʼ ὅλως τῆς τῶν ἐνύδρων ζῴων, μήτε ἐγρηγορόσιν μήτε εὕδουσιν κύρτοις ἀργὸν θήραν διαπονουμένοις.
Ath. a more complete statement will be this,—that the virtuous man is he who passes through life consistently obeying the written rules of the lawgiver, as given in his legislation, approbation and disapprobation. This statement is the most correct way of praising the citizen; and in this way, moreover, the lawgiver must not only write down the laws, but in addition to the laws, and combined with them, he must write down his decisions as to what things are good and what bad; and the perfect citizen must abide by these decisions no less than by the rules enforced by legal penalties. The subject now before us we may adduce as a witness to show more clearly what we mean. Hunting is a large and complex matter, all of which is now generally embraced under this single name. Of the hunting of water-animals there are many varieties, and many of the hunting of fowls; and very many varieties also of hunts of land-animals—not of beasts only, but also, mark you, of men, both in war and often, too, in friendship, a kind of hunt that is partly approved and partly disapproved; and then there are robberies and hunts carried on by pirates and by bands. When the lawgiver is making laws about hunting, he is necessarily bound to make this point clear, and to lay down minatory directions by imposing regulations and penalties for all these kinds. What then ought to be done about these matters? The lawgiver, for his part, will be right in praising or blaming hunting with an eye to the toils and pursuits of the young; and the young man will be right in listening and obeying, and in allowing neither pleasure nor toil to hinder him, and in holding in greater respect the orders that are sanctioned by praise, and carrying them out, rather than those which are enacted by law under threat of penalties. After these prefatory observations there will follow adequate praise and blame of hunting—praise of the kind which renders the souls of the young better, and blame of the kind which does the opposite. Our next step will be to address the young people with prayer—“O friends, would that you might never be seized with any desire or craving for hunting by sea, or for angling, or for ever pursuing water-animals with creels that do your lazy hunting for you, whether you sleep or wake. ”
ΑΘ. μηδʼ αὖ ἄγρας ἀνθρώπων κατὰ θάλατταν λῃστείας τε ἵμερος ἐπελθὼν ὑμῖν θηρευτὰς ὠμοὺς καὶ ἀνόμους ἀποτελοῖ· κλωπείας δʼ ἐν χώρᾳ καὶ πόλει μηδὲ εἰς τὸν ἔσχατον ἐπέλθοι νοῦν ἅψασθαι. μηδʼ αὖ πτηνῶν θήρας αἱμύλος ἔρως οὐ σφόδρα ἐλευθέριος ἐπέλθοι τινὶ νέων. πεζῶν δὴ μόνον θήρευσίς τε καὶ ἄγρα λοιπὴ τοῖς παρʼ ἡμῖν ἀθληταῖς, ὧν ἡ μὲν τῶν εὑδόντων αὖ κατὰ μέρη, νυκτερεία κληθεῖσα, ἀργῶν ἀνδρῶν, οὐκ ἀξία ἐπαίνου, οὐδʼ ἧττον διαπαύματα πόνων ἔχουσα, ἄρκυσίν τε καὶ πάγαις ἀλλʼ οὐ φιλοπόνου ψυχῆς νίκῃ χειρουμένων τὴν ἄγριον τῶν θηρίων ῥώμην· μόνη δὴ πᾶσιν λοιπὴ καὶ ἀρίστη ἡ τῶν τετραπόδων ἵπποις καὶ κυσὶν καὶ τοῖς ἑαυτῶν θήρα σώμασιν, ὧν ἁπάντων κρατοῦσιν δρόμοις καὶ πληγαῖς καὶ βολαῖς αὐτόχειρες θηρεύοντες, ὅσοις ἀνδρείας τῆς θείας ἐπιμελές.τούτων δὴ πάντων ἔπαινος μὲν πέρι καὶ ψόγος ὁ διειρημένος ἂν εἴη λόγος, νόμος δὲ ὅδε· τούτους μηδεὶς τοὺς ἱεροὺς ὄντως θηρευτὰς κωλυέτω ὅπου καὶ ὅπῃπερ ἂν ἐθέλωσιν κυνηγετεῖν, νυκτερευτὴν δὲ ἄρκυσιν καὶ πλεκταῖς πιστὸν μηδεὶς μηδέποτε ἐάσῃ μηδαμοῦ θηρεῦσαι· τὸν ὀρνιθευτὴν δὲ ἐν ἀργοῖς μὲν καὶ ὄρεσιν μὴ κωλυέτω, ἐν ἐργασίμοις δὲ καὶ ἱεροῖς ἀγρίοις ἐξειργέτω ὁ προστυγχάνων, ἐνυγροθηρευτὴν δέ, πλὴν ἐν λιμέσιν καὶ ἱεροῖς ποταμοῖς τε καὶ ἕλεσι καὶ λίμναις, ἐν τοῖς ἄλλοις δὲ ἐξέστω θηρεύειν, μὴ χρώμενον ὀπῶν ἀναθολώσει μόνον.νῦν οὖν ἤδη πάντα χρὴ φάναι τέλος ἔχειν τά γε παιδείας πέρι νόμιμα.
ΚΛ. καλῶς ἂν λέγοις.
Ath. “And may no longing for man-hunting by sea and piracy overtake you, and render you cruel and lawless hunters; and may the thought of committing robbery in country or city not so much as cross your minds. Neither may there seize upon any of the young the crafty craving for snaring birds— no very gentlemanly pursuit! Thus there is left for our athletes only the hunting and capture of land-animals. Of this branch of hunting, the kind called night-stalking, which is the job of lazy men who sleep in turn, is one that deserves no praise; nor does that kind deserve praise in which there are intervals of rest from toil, when men master the wild force of beasts by nets and traps instead of doing so by the victorious might of a toil-loving soul. Accordingly, the only kind left for all, and the best kind, is the hunting of quadrupeds with horses and dogs and the hunter’s own limbs, when men hunt in person, and subdue all the creatures by means of their own running, striking and shooting—all the men, that is to say, who cultivate the courage that is divine.” Concerning the whole of this subject, the exposition we have now given will serve as the praise and blame; and the law will run thus,—“None shall hinder these truly sacred hunters from hunting wheresoever and howsoever they wish; but the night-trapper who trusts to nets and snares no one shall ever allow to hunt anywhere. The fowler no man shall hinder on fallow land or mountain; but he that finds him on tilled fields or on sacred glebes shall drive him off. The fisherman shall be allowed to hunt in all waters except havens and sacred rivers and pools and lakes, but only on condition that he makes no use of muddying juices.” So now, at last, we may say that all our laws about education are complete.
Clin. You may rightly say so.
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