ΑΘ. καλῶς τοίνυν ἂν ἡμῖν ἡ πρεσβυτῶν ἔμφρων παιδιὰ μέχρι δεῦρʼ εἴη τὰ νῦν διαπεπαισμένη.
ΚΛ. καλὴν τὴν σπουδὴν ἔοικας δηλοῦν τῶν ἀνδρῶν.
ΑΘ. εἰκός γε· τόδε δʼ ἐννοήσωμεν εἰ σοὶ δοκεῖ καθάπερ ἐμοί.
ΚΛ. τὸ ποῖον δὴ καὶ περὶ τίνων;
ΑΘ. οἶσθʼ ὅτι καθάπερ ζωγράφων οὐδὲν πέρας ἔχειν ἡ πραγματεία δοκεῖ περὶ ἑκάστων τῶν ζῴων, ἀλλʼ ἢ τοῦ χραίνειν ἢ ἀποχραίνειν, ἢ ὁτιδήποτε καλοῦσι τὸ τοιοῦτον οἱ ζωγράφων παῖδες, οὐκ ἄν ποτε δοκεῖ παύσασθαι κοσμοῦσα, ὥστε ἐπίδοσιν μηκέτʼ ἔχειν εἰς τὸ καλλίω τε καὶ φανερώτερα γίγνεσθαι τὰ γεγραμμένα.
ΚΛ. σχεδὸν ἐννοῶ ἀκούων καὶ αὐτὸς ταῦτα ἃ λέγεις, ἐπεὶ ἐντριβής γε οὐδαμῶς γέγονα τῇ τοιαύτῃ τέχνῃ.
ΑΘ. καὶ οὐδέν γε ἐβλάβης. χρησώμεθά γε μὴν τῷ νῦν παρατυχόντι περὶ αὐτῆς ἡμῖν λόγῳ τὸ τοιόνδε, ὡς εἴ ποτέ τις ἐπινοήσειε γράψαι τε ὡς κάλλιστον ζῷον καὶ τοῦτʼ αὖ μηδέποτε ἐπὶ φαυλότερον ἀλλʼ ἐπὶ τὸ βέλτιον ἴσχειν τοῦ ἐπιόντος ἀεὶ χρόνου, συννοεῖς ὅτι θνητὸς ὤν, εἰ μή τινα καταλείψει διάδοχον τοῦ ἐπανορθοῦν τε, ἐάν τι σφάλληται τὸ ζῷον ὑπὸ χρόνων, καὶ τὸ παραλειφθὲν ὑπὸ τῆς ἀσθενείας τῆς ἑαυτοῦ πρὸς τὴν τέχνην οἷός τε εἰς τὸ πρόσθεν ἔσται φαιδρύνων ποιεῖν ἐπιδιδόναι, σμικρόν τινα χρόνον αὐτῷ πόνος παραμενεῖ πάμπολυς;
ΚΛ. ἀληθῆ.
ΑΘ. τί οὖν; ἆρʼ οὐ τοιοῦτον δοκεῖ σοι τὸ τοῦ νομοθέτου βούλημʼ εἶναι; πρῶτον μὲν γράψαι τοὺς νόμους πρὸς τὴν ἀκρίβειαν κατὰ δύναμιν ἱκανῶς· ἔπειτα προϊόντος τοῦ χρόνου καὶ τῶν δοξάντων ἔργῳ πειρώμενον, ἆρʼ οἴει τινὰ οὕτως ἄφρονα γεγονέναι νομοθέτην, ὥστʼ ἀγνοεῖν ὅτι πάμπολλα ἀνάγκη παραλείπεσθαι τοιαῦτα, ἃ δεῖ τινα συνεπόμενον ἐπανορθοῦν, ἵνα μηδαμῇ χείρων, βελτίων δὲ ἡ πολιτεία καὶ ὁ κόσμος ἀεὶ γίγνηται περὶ τὴν ᾠκισμένην αὐτῷ πόλιν;
ΚΛ. εἰκός—πῶς γὰρ οὔ; —βούλεσθαι πάντα ὁντινοῦν τὸ τοιοῦτον.
ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν εἴ τίς τινα μηχανὴν ἔχοι πρὸς τοῦτο, ἔργῳ καὶ λόγοις τίνα τρόπον διδάξειεν ἂν ἕτερον εἴτε μείζονα εἴτε ἐλάττω περὶ τοῦτʼ ἔχειν ἔννοιαν, ὅπως χρὴ φυλάττειν καὶ ἐπανορθοῦν νόμους, οὐκ ἄν ποτε λέγων ἀπείποι τὸ τοιοῦτον πρὶν ἐπὶ τέλος ἐλθεῖν;
Ath. It seems, then, that up to now our ancients’ game of reason has been finely played.
Clin. You are showing, I think, how fine is the serious work of our citizens.
Ath. Very probably: but let us see whether you agree with me about another point.
Clin. What is it, and whom does it concern?
Ath. You know how, for instance, the painter’s art in depicting each several subject seems never to get to an end, and in its embellishing it seems as if it would never stop laying on colors or taking them off—or whatever the professional painters term the process—and reach a point where the picture admits of no further improvement in respect of beauty and lucidity.
Clin. I, too, remember hearing something of the fact you mention, although I am by no means practised in that kind of art.
Ath. You are none the worse for that. We may still use this fact, which it has occurred to us to mention, to illustrate the following point. Suppose that a man should propose to paint an object of extreme beauty, and that this should never grow worse, but always better, as time went on, do you not see that, since the painter is mortal, unless he leaves a successor who is able to repair the picture if it suffers through time, and also in the future to improve it by touching up any deficiency left by his own imperfect craftsmanship, his interminable toil will have results of but short duration?
Clin. True.
Ath. Well then, do you not think that the purpose of the lawgiver is similar? He purposes, first, to write down the laws, so far as he can, with complete precision; next, when in the course of time he puts his decrees to the test of practice, you cannot suppose that any lawgiver will be so foolish as not to perceive that very many things must necessarily be left over, which it will be the duty of some successor to make right, in order that the constitution and the system of the State he has organized may always grow better, and never in any way worse.
Clin. This, of course, is what everyone naturally desires.
Ath. Suppose then that a man knew of a device indicating the way in which he could teach another man by deed and word to understand in a greater or less degree how he should conserve or amend laws, surely he would never cease declaring it until he had accomplished his purpose.
ΚΛ. πῶς γὰρ ἄν;
ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν ἐν τῷ νῦν παρόντι ποιητέον ἐμοὶ καὶ σφῷν τοῦτο;
ΚΛ. τὸ ποῖον δὴ λέγεις;
ΑΘ. ἐπειδὴ νομοθετεῖν μὲν μέλλομεν, ᾕρηνται δὲ ἡμῖν νομοφύλακες, ἡμεῖς δʼ ἐν δυσμαῖς τοῦ βίου, οἱ δʼ ὡς πρὸς ἡμᾶς νέοι, ἅμα μέν, ὥς φαμεν, δεῖ νομοθετεῖν ἡμᾶς, ἅμα δὲ πειρᾶσθαι ποιεῖν καὶ τούτους αὐτοὺς νομοθέτας τε καὶ νομοφύλακας εἰς τὸ δυνατόν.
ΚΛ. τί μήν; εἴπερ οἷοί τέ γʼ ἐσμὲν ἱκανῶς.
ΑΘ. ἀλλʼ οὖν πειρατέα γε καὶ προθυμητέα.
ΚΛ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
ΑΘ. λέγωμεν δὴ πρὸς αὐτούς· ὦ φίλοι σωτῆρες νόμων, ἡμεῖς περὶ ἑκάστων ὧν τίθεμεν τοὺς νόμους πάμπολλα παραλείψομεν—ἀνάγκη γάρ—οὐ μὴν ἀλλʼ ὅσα γε μὴ σμικρὰ καὶ τὸ ὅλον εἰς δύναμιν οὐκ ἀνήσομεν ἀπεριήγητον καθάπερ τινὶ περιγραφῇ· τοῦτο δὲ δεήσει συμπληροῦν ὑμᾶς τὸ περιηγηθέν. ὅποι δὲ βλέποντες δράσετε τὸ τοιοῦτον, ἀκούειν χρή. Μέγιλλος μὲν γὰρ καὶ ἐγὼ καὶ Κλεινίας εἰρήκαμέν τε αὐτὰ ἀλλήλοις οὐκ ὀλιγάκις, ὁμολογοῦμέν τε λέγεσθαι καλῶς· ὑμᾶς δὲ ἡμῖν βουλόμεθα συγγνώμονάς τε ἅμα καὶ μαθητὰς γίγνεσθαι, βλέποντας πρὸς ταῦτα εἰς ἅπερ ἡμεῖς συνεχωρήσαμεν ἀλλήλοις τὸν νομοφύλακά τε καὶ νομοθέτην δεῖν βλέπειν. ἦν δὲ ἡ συγχώρησις ἓν ἔχουσα κεφάλαιον, ὅπως ποτὲ ἀνὴρ ἀγαθὸς γίγνοιτʼ ἄν, τὴν ἀνθρώπῳ προσήκουσαν ἀρετὴν τῆς ψυχῆς ἔχων ἔκ τινος ἐπιτηδεύματος ἤ τινος ἤθους ἢ ποιᾶς κτήσεως ἢ ἐπιθυμίας ἢ δόξης ἢ μαθημάτων ποτέ τινων, εἴτε ἄρρην τις τῶν συνοικούντων οὖσα ἡ φύσις εἴτε θήλεια, νέων ἢ γερόντων, ὅπως εἰς ταὐτὸν τοῦτο ὃ λέγομεν τεταμένη σπουδὴ πᾶσα ἔσται διὰ παντὸς τοῦ βίου, τῶν δʼ ἄλλων ὁπόσα ἐμπόδια τούτοις μηδὲν προτιμῶν φανεῖται μηδʼ ὁστισοῦν, τελευτῶν δὲ καὶ πόλεως, ἐὰν ἀνάστατον ἀνάγκη φαίνηται γίγνεσθαι πρὶν ἐθέλειν δούλειον ὑπομείνασα ζυγὸν ἄρχεσθαι ὑπὸ χειρόνων, ἢ λείπειν φυγῇ τὴν πόλιν· ὡς πάντα τὰ τοιαῦτα ἄρʼ ἔσθʼ ὑπομενετέον πάσχοντας πρὶν ἀλλάξασθαι πολιτείαν ἣ χείρους ἀνθρώπους πέφυκε ποιεῖν.
Clin. He certainly would not.
Ath. Must not we three act thus on the present occasion?
Clin. What is it you mean?
Ath. We are about to make laws, and Law-wardens have been appointed by us; therefore, since we are in the evening of life, while those compared to us are youthful, we should not only legislate, as we say, ourselves, but also make legislators, as well as Law-wardens, of these very same men, so far as we can.
Clin. We should,—if, that is to say, we are capable of so doing.
Ath. At any rate we must try, and try hard.
Clin. By all means.
Ath. Let us address them thus:— “Beloved Keepers of the Laws, in many departments of our legislation we shall leave out a vast number of matters (for we needs must do so) ; yet, notwithstanding, all important matters, as well as the general description, we shall include, so far as we can, in our outline sketch. Your help will be required to fill in this outline; and you must listen to what I say about the aim you should have before you in doing so. Megillus, Clinias and I have often stated to one another that aim, and we agree that it is rightly stated; so we desire you to be in immediate unison with us, as our disciples, and to aim at those objects at which, as we three have agreed, the lawgiver and Law-warden ought to aim. The sum and substance of our agreement was simply this: that whatsoever be the way in which a member of our community—be he of the male or female sex, young or old,—may become a good citizen, possessed of the excellence of soul which belongs to man, whether derived from some pursuit or disposition, or from some form of diet, or from desire or opinion or mental study, to the attainment of this end all his efforts throughout the whole of his life shall be directed; and not a single person shall show himself preferring any object which impedes this aim; in fine, even as regards the State, he must allow it to be revolutionized, if it seems necessary, rather than voluntarily submit to the yoke of slavery under the rule of the worse, or else he must himself quit the State as an exile: all such sufferings men must endure rather than change to a polity which naturally makes men worse.”
ΑΘ. ταῦτα ἡμεῖς τε ἔμπροσθεν συνωμολογησάμεθα, καὶ νῦν ὑμεῖς ἡμῶν εἰς ταῦτα ἑκάτερα βλέποντες ἐπαινεῖτε καὶ ψέγετε τοὺς νόμους ὅσοι μὴ ταῦτα δυνατοί, τοὺς δὲ δυνατοὺς ἀσπάζεσθέ τε καὶ φιλοφρόνως δεχόμενοι ζῆτε ἐν αὐτοῖς· τὰ δʼ ἄλλα ἐπιτηδεύματα καὶ πρὸς ἄλλα τείνοντα τῶν ἀγαθῶν λεγομένων χαίρειν χρὴ προσαγορεύειν.ἀρχὴ δὲ ἔστω τῶν μετὰ ταῦτα ἡμῖν νόμων ἥδε τις, ἀφʼ ἱερῶν ἠργμένη. τὸν ἀριθμὸν γὰρ δὴ δεῖ πρῶτον ἀναλαβεῖν ἡμᾶς τὸν τῶν πεντακισχιλίων καὶ τετταράκοντα, ὅσας εἶχέν τε καὶ ἔχει τομὰς προσφόρους ὅ τε ὅλος ἅμα καὶ ὁ κατὰ φυλάς, ὃ δὴ τοῦ παντὸς ἔθεμεν δωδεκατημόριον, ἓν καὶ εἴκοσιν εἰκοσάκις ὀρθότατα φύν. ἔχει δὲ διανομὰς δώδεκα μὲν ὁ πᾶς ἀριθμὸς ἡμῖν, δώδεκα δὲ καὶ ὁ τῆς φυλῆς· ἑκάστην δὴ τὴν μοῖραν διανοεῖσθαι χρεὼν ὡς οὖσαν ἱεράν, θεοῦ δῶρον, ἑπομένην τοῖς μησὶν καὶ τῇ τοῦ παντὸς περιόδῳ. διὸ καὶ πᾶσαν πόλιν ἄγει μὲν τὸ σύμφυτον ἱεροῦν αὐτάς, ἄλλοι δὲ ἄλλων ἴσως ὀρθότερον ἐνείμαντό τε καὶ εὐτυχέστερον ἐθείωσαν τὴν διανομήν· ἡμεῖς δὲ οὖν νῦν φαμεν ὀρθότατα προῃρῆσθαι τὸν τῶν πεντακισχιλίων καὶ τετταράκοντα ἀριθμόν, ὃς πάσας τὰς διανομὰς ἔχει μέχρι τῶν δώδεκα ἀπὸ μιᾶς ἀρξάμενος πλὴν ἑνδεκάδος—αὕτη δʼ ἔχει σμικρότατον ἴαμα· ἐπὶ θάτερα γὰρ ὑγιὴς γίγνεται δυοῖν ἑστίαιν ἀπονεμηθείσαιν—ὡς δʼ ἐστὶν ταῦτα ἀληθῶς ὄντα, κατὰ σχολὴν οὐκ ἂν πολὺς ἐπιδείξειεν μῦθος. πιστεύσαντες δὴ τὰ νῦν τῇ παρούσῃ φήμῃ καὶ λόγῳ, νείμωμέν τε ταύτην, καὶ ἑκάστῃ μοίρᾳ θεὸν ἢ θεῶν παῖδα ἐπιφημίσαντες, βωμούς τε καὶ τὰ τούτοις προσήκοντα ἀποδόντες, θυσιῶν πέρι συνόδους ἐπʼ αὐτοῖς ποιώμεθα δύο τοῦ μηνός, δώδεκα μὲν τῇ τῆς φυλῆς διανομῇ, δώδεκα δὲ αὐτῷ τῷ τῆς πόλεως διαμερισμῷ, θεῶν μὲν δὴ πρῶτον χάριτος ἕνεκα καὶ τῶν περὶ θεούς, δεύτερον δὲ ἡμῶν αὐτῶν οἰκειότητός τε πέρι καὶ γνωρίσεως ἀλλήλων, ὡς φαῖμεν ἄν, καὶ ὁμιλίας ἕνεκα πάσης. πρὸς γὰρ δὴ τὴν τῶν γάμων κοινωνίαν καὶ σύμμειξιν ἀναγκαίως ἔχει τὴν ἄγνοιαν ἐξαιρεῖν παρʼ ὧν τέ τις ἄγεται καὶ ἃ καὶ οἷς ἐκδίδωσι, περὶ παντὸς ποιούμενον ὅτι μάλιστα τὸ μὴ σφάλλεσθαι μηδαμῶς ἐν τοῖς τοιούτοις κατὰ τὸ δυνατόν.
Ath. “This is what we previously agreed upon: so do you now keep both these objects of ours in view as you revise the laws, and censure all the laws which are unable to effect them, but welcome all such as are able to do so, and, adopting them wholeheartedly, rule your lives by them. All other practices, which tend towards ‘goods’ (so-called), other than these, you must bid farewell to.” For a beginning of the laws which are to follow, we must commence with things sacred. First, we must consider anew the number 5,040, and the number of convenient subdivisions which we found it to contain both as a whole and when divided up into tribes: the tribal number is, as we said, a twelfth part of the whole number, being in its nature precisely 20 X 21. Our whole number has twelve subdivisions, and the tribal number also has twelve; and each such portion must be regarded as a sacred gift of God, conformed to the months and to the revolution of the universe. Wherefore also every State is guided by native instinct to hold them sacred, although some men possibly have made their divisions more correctly than others, or have consecrated them more happily. We, in any case, affirm now that we are perfectly correct in first selecting the number 5,040, which admits of division by all the numbers from 1 to 12, excepting only 11—and this omission is very easily remedied, since the mere subtraction of two hearths from the total restores an integral number as quotient: that this is really true we could show, at our leisure, by a fairly short explanation. For the present, then, we shall trust to the oracular statement just delivered, and we shall employ these subdivisions, and give to each portion the name of a God, or of a child of Gods, and bestow on it altars and all that belongs thereto; and at these we shall appoint two assemblies every month for sacrifice—of which twelve (yearly) shall be for the whole tribal division, and twelve for its urban section only; the object of these shall be, first, to offer thanksgiving to the gods and their attendants, and secondly, to promote fellowship amongst ourselves and the mutual acquaintance we spoke of, and association of every sort. For, in view of the fellowship and intercourse of marriage, it is necessary to eliminate ignorance, both on the part of the husband concerning the woman he marries and the family she comes from, and on the part of the father concerning the man to whom he gives his daughter; for it is all-important in such matters to avoid, if possible, any mistake.
ΑΘ. τῆς οὖν τοιαύτης σπουδῆς ἕνεκα χρὴ καὶ τὰς παιδιὰς ποιεῖσθαι χορεύοντάς τε καὶ χορευούσας κόρους καὶ κόρας, καὶ ἅμα δὴ θεωροῦντάς τε καὶ θεωρουμένους μετὰ λόγου τε καὶ ἡλικίας τινὸς ἐχούσης εἰκυίας προφάσεις, γυμνοὺς καὶ γυμνὰς μέχριπερ αἰδοῦς σώφρονος ἑκάστων. τούτων δʼ ἐπιμελητὰς πάντων καὶ κοσμητὰς τοὺς τῶν χορῶν ἄρχοντας γίγνεσθαι καὶ νομοθέτας μετὰ τῶν νομοφυλάκων, ὅσον ἂν ἡμεῖς ἐκλείπωμεν τάττοντες· ἀναγκαῖον δέ, ὅπερ εἴπομεν, περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα πάντα ὅσα σμικρὰ καὶ πολλὰ νομοθέτην μὲν ἐκλείπειν, τοὺς δʼ ἐμπείρους ἀεὶ κατʼ ἐνιαυτὸν γιγνομένους αὐτῶν, ἀπὸ τῆς χρείας μανθάνοντας, τάττεσθαι καὶ ἐπανορθουμένους κινεῖν κατʼ ἐνιαυτόν, ἕως ἂν ὅρος ἱκανὸς δόξῃ τῶν τοιούτων νομίμων καὶ ἐπιτηδευμάτων γεγονέναι. χρόνος μὲν οὖν μέτριος ἅμα καὶ ἱκανὸς γίγνοιτʼ ἂν τῆς ἐμπειρίας δεκαετηρὶς θυσιῶν τε καὶ χορειῶν, ἐπὶ πάντα καὶ ἕκαστα ταχθείς, ζῶντος μὲν τοῦ τάξαντος νομοθέτου κοινῇ, τέλος δὲ σχόντος, αὐτὰς ἑκάστας τὰς ἀρχὰς εἰς τοὺς νομοφύλακας εἰσφερούσας τὸ παραλειπόμενον τῆς αὑτῶν ἀρχῆς ἐπανορθοῦσθαι, μέχριπερ ἂν τέλος ἔχειν ἕκαστον δόξῃ τοῦ καλῶς ἐξειργάσθαι, τότε δὲ ἀκίνητα θεμένους, ἤδη χρῆσθαι μετὰ τῶν ἄλλων νόμων οὓς ἔταξε κατʼ ἀρχὰς ὁ θεὶς αὐτοῖς νομοθέτης· ὧν πέρι κινεῖν μὲν ἑκόντας μηδέποτε μηδέν, εἰ δέ τις ἀνάγκη δόξειέ ποτε καταλαβεῖν, πάσας μὲν τὰς ἀρχὰς χρὴ συμβούλους, πάντα δὲ τὸν δῆμον καὶ πάσας θεῶν μαντείας ἐπελθόντας, ἐὰν συμφωνῶσι πάντες, οὕτω κινεῖν, ἄλλως δὲ μηδέποτε μηδαμῶς, ἀλλὰ τὸν κωλύοντα ἀεὶ κατὰ νόμον κρατεῖν.ὁπότε τις οὖν καὶ ὁπηνίκα τῶν πέντε καὶ εἴκοσι γεγονότων ἔτη, σκοπῶν καὶ σκοπούμενος ὑπʼ ἄλλων, κατὰ νοῦν ἑαυτῷ καὶ πρέποντα εἰς παίδων κοινωνίαν καὶ γένεσιν ἐξηυρηκέναι πιστεύει, γαμείτω μὲν πᾶς ἐντὸς τῶν πέντε καὶ τριάκοντα ἐτῶν, τὸ δὲ πρέπον καὶ τὸ ἁρμόττον ὡς χρὴ ζητεῖν, πρῶτον ἐπακουσάτω· δεῖ γάρ, ὥς φησιν Κλεινίας, ἔμπροσθεν τοῦ νόμου προοίμιον οἰκεῖον ἑκάστῳ προτιθέναι.
ΚΛ. κάλλιστα, ὦ ξένε, διεμνημόνευσας, ἔλαβές τε τοῦ λόγου καιρὸν καὶ μάλʼ ἐμοὶ δοκοῦντʼ εἶναι σύμμετρον.
Ath. To achieve this serious purpose, sportive dances should be arranged for boys and girls; and at these they should both view and be viewed, in a reasonable way and on occasions that offer a suitable pretext, with bodies unclad, save so far as sober modesty prescribes. Of all such matters the officers of the choirs shall be the supervisors and controllers, and also, in conjunction with the Law-wardens, the lawgivers of all that we leave unprescribed. It is, as we said, necessary that in regard to all matters involving a host of petty details the law-giver should leave omissions, and that rules and amendments should be made from year to year by those who have constant experience of them from year to year and are taught by practice, until it be decided that a satisfactory code has been made out to regulate all such proceedings. A fair and sufficient period to assign for such experimental work would be ten years, both for sacrifices and for dances in all their several details; each body of officials, acting in conjunction with the original lawgiver, if he be still alive, or by themselves, if he be dead, shall report to the Law-wardens whatever is omitted in their own department, and shall make it good, until each detail seems to have reached its proper completion: this done, they shall decree them as fixed rules, and employ them as well as the rest of the laws originally decreed by the law-giver. In these they must never make any change voluntarily; but if it should ever be thought that a necessity for change has arisen, all the people must be consulted, as well as all the officials, and they must seek advice from all the divine oracles; and if there is a general consent by all, then they may make a change, but under no other conditions at any time; and the objector to change shall always prevail according to law. When any man of twenty-five years of age, viewing and being viewed by others, believes that he has found in any quarter a mate to his liking and suitable for the joint procreation of children, he shall marry, in every case before he is thirty-five; but first let him hearken to the direction as to how he should seek what is proper and fitting, for, as Clinias maintains, one ought to introduce each law by a prelude suitable thereto.
Clin. A very proper reminder, Stranger,—and you have chosen, in my opinion, a most opportune point in your discourse for making it.
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