ΑΘ. ἀλλὰ ὑπολαβεῖν ἀναγκαῖον ὅτι τὸ τοιοῦτόν γε πολλῆς ἀγροικίας μεστὸν πᾶν, ὁπόσον τάχους τε καὶ ἀπταισίας καὶ φωνῆς θηριώδους σφόδρα φίλον ὥστʼ αὐλήσει γε χρῆσθαι καὶ κιθαρίσει πλὴν ὅσον ὑπὸ ὄρχησίν τε καὶ ᾠδήν, ψιλῷ δʼ ἑκατέρῳ πᾶσά τις ἀμουσία καὶ θαυματουργία γίγνοιτʼ ἂν τῆς χρήσεως. ταῦτα μὲν ἔχει ταύτῃ λόγον· ἡμεῖς δέ γε οὐχ ὅτι μὴ δεῖ ταῖς Μούσαις ἡμῶν προσχρῆσθαι τοὺς ἤδη τριακοντούτας καὶ τῶν πεντήκοντα πέραν γεγονότας σκοπούμεθα, ἀλλʼ ὅτι ποτὲ δεῖ. τόδε μὲν οὖν ἐκ τούτων ὁ λόγος ἡμῖν δοκεῖ μοι σημαίνειν ἤδη, τῆς γε χορικῆς Μούσης ὅτι πεπαιδεῦσθαι δεῖ βέλτιον τοὺς πεντηκοντούτας ὅσοισπερ ἂν ᾄδειν προσήκῃ. τῶν γὰρ ῥυθμῶν καὶ τῶν ἁρμονιῶν ἀναγκαῖον αὐτοῖς ἐστιν εὐαισθήτως ἔχειν καὶ γιγνώσκειν· ἢ πῶς τις τὴν ὀρθότητα γνώσεται τῶν μελῶν, ᾧ προσῆκεν ἢ μὴ προσῆκεν τοῦ δωριστί, καὶ τοῦ ῥυθμοῦ ὃν ὁ ποιητὴς αὐτῷ προσῆψεν, ὀρθῶς ἢ μή;
ΚΛ. δῆλον ὡς οὐδαμῶς.
ΑΘ. γελοῖος γὰρ ὅ γε πολὺς ὄχλος ἡγούμενος ἱκανῶς γιγνώσκειν τό τε εὐάρμοστον καὶ εὔρυθμον καὶ μή, ὅσοι προσᾴδειν αὐτῶν καὶ βαίνειν ἐν ῥυθμῷ γεγόνασι διηναγκασμένοι, ὅτι δὲ δρῶσιν ταῦτα ἀγνοοῦντες αὐτῶν ἕκαστα, οὐ συλλογίζονται. τὸ δέ που προσήκοντα μὲν ἔχον πᾶν μέλος ὀρθῶς ἔχει, μὴ προσήκοντα δὲ ἡμαρτημένως.
ΚΛ. ἀναγκαιότατα.
ΑΘ. τί οὖν ὁ μηδʼ ὅτι ποτʼ ἔχει γιγνώσκων; ἆρα, ὅπερ εἴπομεν, ὡς ὀρθῶς γε αὐτὸ ἔχει, γνώσεταί ποτε ἐν ὁτῳοῦν;
ΚΛ. καὶ τίς μηχανή;
ΑΘ. τοῦτʼ οὖν, ὡς ἔοικεν, ἀνευρίσκομεν αὖ τὰ νῦν, ὅτι τοῖς ᾠδοῖς ἡμῖν, οὓς νῦν παρακαλοῦμεν καὶ ἑκόντας τινὰ τρόπον ἀναγκάζομεν ᾄδειν, μέχρι γε τοσούτου πεπαιδεῦσθαι σχεδὸν ἀναγκαῖον, μέχρι τοῦ δυνατὸν εἶναι συνακολουθεῖν ἕκαστον ταῖς τε βάσεσιν τῶν ῥυθμῶν καὶ ταῖς χορδαῖς ταῖς τῶν μελῶν, ἵνα καθορῶντες τάς τε ἁρμονίας καὶ τοὺς ῥυθμούς, ἐκλέγεσθαί τε τὰ προσήκοντα οἷοί τʼ ὦσιν ἃ τοῖς τηλικούτοις τε καὶ τοιούτοις ᾄδειν πρέπον, καὶ οὕτως ᾄδωσιν, καὶ ᾄδοντες αὐτοί τε ἡδονὰς τὸ παραχρῆμα ἀσινεῖς ἥδωνται καὶ τοῖς νεωτέροις ἡγεμόνες ἠθῶν χρηστῶν ἀσπασμοῦ προσήκοντος γίγνωνται· μέχρι δὲ τοσούτου παιδευθέντες ἀκριβεστέραν ἂν παιδείαν τῆς ἐπὶ τὸ πλῆθος φερούσης εἶεν μετακεχειρισμένοι καὶ τῆς περὶ τοὺς ποιητὰς αὐτούς.
Ath. Such methods, as one ought to realize, are clownish in the extreme in so far as they exhibit an excessive craving for speed, mechanical accuracy, and the imitation of animals’ sounds, and consequently employ the pipe and the harp without the accompaniment of dance and song; for the use of either of these instruments by itself is the mark of the mountebank or the boor. Enough, then, of that matter: now as to ourselves. What we are considering is, not how those of us who are over thirty years old, or beyond fifty, ought not to make use of the Muses, but how they ought to do so. Our argument already indicates, I think, this result from our discussion,—that all men of over fifty that are fit to sing ought to have a training that is better than that of the choric Muse. For they must of necessity possess knowledge and a quick perception of rhythms and harmonies; else how shall a man know which tunes are correct?
Clin. Obviously he cannot know this at all.
Ath. It is absurd of the general crowd to imagine that they can fully understand what is harmonious and rhythmical, or the reverse, when they have been drilled to sing to the flute or step in time; and they fail to comprehend that, in doing each of these things, they do them in ignorance. But the fact is that every tune which has its appropriate elements is correct, but incorrect if the elements are inappropriate.
Clin. Undoubtedly.
Ath. What then of the man who does not know in the least what the tune’s elements are? Will he ever know about any tune, as we said, that it is correct?
Clin. There is no possible means of his doing so.
Ath. We are now once more, as it appears, discovering the fact that these singers of ours (whom we are now inviting and compelling, so to say, of their own free will to sing) must almost necessarily be trained up to such a point that every one of them may be able to follow both the steps of the rhythms and the chords of the tunes, so that, by observing the harmonies and rhythms, they may be able to select those of an appropriate kind, which it is seemly for men of their own age and character to sing, and may in this wise sing them, and in the singing may not only enjoy innocent pleasure themselves at the moment, but also may serve as leaders to the younger men in their seemly adoption of noble manners. If they were trained up to such a point, their training would be more thorough than that of the majority, or indeed of the poets themselves.
ΑΘ. τὸ γὰρ τρίτον οὐδεμία ἀνάγκη ποιητῇ γιγνώσκειν, εἴτε καλὸν εἴτε μὴ καλὸν τὸ μίμημα, τὸ δὲ ἁρμονίας καὶ ῥυθμοῦ σχεδὸν ἀνάγκη, τοῖς δὲ πάντα τὰ τρία τῆς ἐκλογῆς ἕνεκα τοῦ καλλίστου καὶ δευτέρου, ἢ μηδέποτε ἱκανὸν ἐπῳδὸν γίγνεσθαι νέοις πρὸς ἀρετήν. καὶ ὅπερ ὁ λόγος ἐν ἀρχαῖς ἐβουλήθη, τὴν τῷ τοῦ Διονύσου χορῷ βοήθειαν ἐπιδεῖξαι καλῶς λεγομένην, εἰς δύναμιν εἴρηκεν· σκοπώμεθα δὴ εἰ τοῦθʼ οὕτω γέγονεν. θορυβώδης μέν που ὁ σύλλογος ὁ τοιοῦτος ἐξ ἀνάγκης προϊούσης τῆς πόσεως ἐπὶ μᾶλλον ἀεὶ συμβαίνει γιγνόμενος, ὅπερ ὑπεθέμεθα κατʼ ἀρχὰς ἀναγκαῖον εἶναι γίγνεσθαι περὶ τῶν νῦν λεγομένων.
ΚΛ. ἀνάγκη.
ΑΘ. πᾶς δέ γε αὐτὸς αὑτοῦ κουφότερος αἴρεται καὶ γέγηθέν τε καὶ παρρησίας ἐμπίμπλαται καὶ ἀνηκουστίας ἐν τῷ τοιούτῳ τῶν πέλας, ἄρχων δʼ ἱκανὸς ἀξιοῖ ἑαυτοῦ τε καὶ τῶν ἄλλων γεγονέναι.
ΚΛ. τί μήν;
ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν ἔφαμεν, ὅταν γίγνηται ταῦτα, καθάπερ τινὰ σίδηρον τὰς ψυχὰς τῶν πινόντων διαπύρους γιγνομένας μαλθακωτέρας γίγνεσθαι καὶ νεωτέρας, ὥστε εὐαγώγους συμβαίνειν τῷ δυναμένῳ τε καὶ ἐπισταμένῳ παιδεύειν τε καὶ πλάττειν, καθάπερ ὅτʼ ἦσαν νέαι; τοῦτον δʼ εἶναι τὸν πλάστην τὸν αὐτὸν ὥσπερ τότε, τὸν ἀγαθὸν νομοθέτην, οὗ νόμους εἶναι δεῖ συμποτικούς, δυναμένους τὸν εὔελπιν καὶ θαρραλέον ἐκεῖνον γιγνόμενον καὶ ἀναισχυντότερον τοῦ δέοντος, καὶ οὐκ ἐθέλοντα τάξιν καὶ τὸ κατὰ μέρος σιγῆς καὶ λόγου καὶ πόσεως καὶ μούσης ὑπομένειν, ἐθέλειν ποιεῖν πάντα τούτοις τἀναντία, καὶ εἰσιόντι τῷ μὴ καλῷ θάρρει τὸν κάλλιστον διαμαχόμενον φόβον εἰσπέμπειν οἵους τʼ εἶναι μετὰ δίκης, ὃν αἰδῶ τε καὶ αἰσχύνην θεῖον φόβον ὠνομάκαμεν;
ΚΛ. ἔστιν ταῦτα.
ΑΘ. τούτων δέ γε τῶν νόμων εἶναι νομοφύλακας καὶ συνδημιουργοὺς αὐτοῖς τοὺς ἀθορύβους καὶ νήφοντας τῶν μὴ νηφόντων στρατηγούς, ὧν δὴ χωρὶς μέθῃ διαμάχεσθαι δεινότερον ἢ πολεμίοις εἶναι μὴ μετὰ ἀρχόντων ἀθορύβων, καὶ τὸν αὖ μὴ δυνάμενον ἐθέλειν πείθεσθαι τούτοις καὶ τοῖς ἡγεμόσιν τοῖς τοῦ Διονύσου, τοῖς ὑπὲρ ἑξήκοντα ἔτη γεγονόσιν, ἴσην καὶ μείζω τὴν αἰσχύνην φέρειν ἢ τὸν τοῖς τοῦ Ἄρεως ἀπειθοῦντα ἄρχουσιν.
ΚΛ. ὀρθῶς.
Ath. For although it is almost necessary for a poet to have a knowledge of harmony and rhythm, it is not necessary for him to know the third point also—namely, whether the representation is noble or ignoble; but for our older singers a knowledge of all these three points is necessary, to enable them to determine what is first, what second in order of nobility; otherwise none of them will ever succeed in attracting the young to virtue by his incantations. The primary intention of our argument, which was to demonstrate that our defence of the Dionysiac chorus was justifiable, has now been carried out to the best of our ability. Let us consider if that is really so. Such a gathering inevitably tends, as the drinking proceeds, to grow ever more and more uproarious; and in the case of the present day gatherings that is, as we said at the outset, an inevitable result.
Clin. Inevitable.
Ath. Everyone is uplifted above his normal self, and is merry and bubbles over with loquacious audacity himself, while turning a deaf ear to his neighbors, and regards himself as competent to rule both himself and everyone else.
Clin. To be sure.
Ath. And did we not say that when this takes place, the souls of the drinkers turn softer, like iron, through being heated, and younger too; whence they become ductile, just as when they were young, in the hands of the man who has the skill and the ability to train and mould them. And now, even as then, the man who is to mould them is the good legislator; he must lay down banqueting laws, able to control that banqueter who becomes confident and bold and unduly shameless, and unwilling to submit to the proper limits of silence and speech, of drinking and of music, making him consent to do in all ways the opposite,— laws able also, with the aid of justice, to fight against the entrance of such ignoble audacity, by bringing in that most noble fear which we have named “modesty” and “shame.”
Clin. That is so.
Ath. And as law-wardens of these laws and cooperators therewith, there must be sober and sedate men to act as commanders over the un-sober; for to fight drunkenness without these would be a more formidable task than to fight enemies without sedate leaders. Any man who refuses willingly to obey these men and the officers of Dionysus (who are over sixty years of age) shall incur as much disgrace as the man who disobeys the officers of Ares, and even more.
Clin. Quite right.
ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν εἴ γε εἴη τοιαύτη μὲν μέθη, τοιαύτη δὲ παιδιά, μῶν οὐκ ὠφεληθέντες ἂν οἱ τοιοῦτοι συμπόται καὶ μᾶλλον φίλοι ἢ πρότερον ἀπαλλάττοιντο ἀλλήλων, ἀλλʼ οὐχ ὥσπερ τὰ νῦν ἐχθροί, κατὰ νόμους δὲ πᾶσαν τὴν συνουσίαν συγγενόμενοι καὶ ἀκολουθήσαντες, ὁπότε ἀφηγοῖντο οἱ νήφοντες τοῖς μὴ νήφουσιν;
ΚΛ. ὀρθῶς, εἴ γε δὴ εἴη τοιαύτη οἵαν νῦν λέγεις.
ΑΘ. μὴ τοίνυν ἐκεῖνό γʼ ἔτι τῆς τοῦ Διονύσου δωρεᾶς ψέγωμεν ἁπλῶς, ὡς ἔστιν κακὴ καὶ εἰς πόλιν οὐκ ἀξία παραδέχεσθαι. καὶ γὰρ ἔτι πλείω τις ἂν ἐπεξέλθοι λέγων· ἐπεὶ καὶ τὸ μέγιστον ἀγαθὸν ὃ δωρεῖται λέγειν μὲν ὄκνος εἰς τοὺς πολλοὺς διὰ τὸ κακῶς τοὺς ἀνθρώπους αὐτὸ ὑπολαβεῖν καὶ γνῶναι λεχθέν.
ΚΛ. τὸ ποῖον δή;
ΑΘ. λόγος τις ἅμα καὶ φήμη ὑπορρεῖ πως ὡς ὁ θεὸς οὗτος ὑπὸ τῆς μητρυᾶς Ἥρας διεφορήθη τῆς ψυχῆς τὴν γνώμην, διὸ τάς τε βακχείας καὶ πᾶσαν τὴν μανικὴν ἐμβάλλει χορείαν τιμωρούμενος· ὅθεν καὶ τὸν οἶνον ἐπὶ τοῦτʼ αὐτὸ δεδώρηται. ἐγὼ δὲ τὰ μὲν τοιαῦτα τοῖς ἀσφαλὲς ἡγουμένοις εἶναι λέγειν περὶ θεῶν ἀφίημι λέγειν, τὸ δὲ τοσόνδε οἶδα, ὅτι πᾶν ζῷον, ὅσον αὐτῷ προσήκει νοῦν ἔχειν τελεωθέντι, τοῦτον καὶ τοσοῦτον οὐδὲν ἔχον ποτὲ φύεται· ἐν τούτῳ δὴ τῷ χρόνῳ ἐν ᾧ μήπω κέκτηται τὴν οἰκείαν φρόνησιν, πᾶν μαίνεταί τε καὶ βοᾷ ἀτάκτως, καὶ ὅταν ἀκταινώσῃ ἑαυτὸ τάχιστα, ἀτάκτως αὖ πηδᾷ. ἀναμνησθῶμεν δὲ ὅτι μουσικῆς τε καὶ γυμναστικῆς ἔφαμεν ἀρχὰς ταύτας εἶναι.
ΚΛ. μεμνήμεθα· τί δʼ οὔ;
ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν καὶ ὅτι τὴν ῥυθμοῦ τε καὶ ἁρμονίας αἴσθησιν τοῖς ἀνθρώποις ἡμῖν ἐνδεδωκέναι τὴν ἀρχὴν ταύτην ἔφαμεν, Ἀπόλλωνα δὲ καὶ μούσας καὶ Διόνυσον θεῶν αἰτίους γεγονέναι;
ΚΛ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
ΑΘ. καὶ δὴ καὶ τὸν οἶνόν γε, ὡς ἔοικεν, ὁ τῶν ἄλλων λόγος, ἵνα μανῶμεν, φησὶν ἐπὶ τιμωρίᾳ τῇ τῶν ἀνθρώπων δεδόσθαι· ὁ δὲ νῦν λεγόμενος ὑφʼ ἡμῶν φάρμακον ἐπὶ τοὐναντίον φησὶν αἰδοῦς μὲν ψυχῆς κτήσεως ἕνεκα δεδόσθαι, σώματος δὲ ὑγιείας τε καὶ ἰσχύος.
ΚΛ. κάλλιστα, ὦ ξένε, τὸν λόγον ἀπεμνημόνευκας.
ΑΘ. καὶ τὰ μὲν δὴ τῆς χορείας ἡμίσεα διαπεπεράνθω· τὰ δʼ ἡμίσεα, ὅπως ἂν ἔτι δοκῇ, περανοῦμεν ἢ καὶ ἐάσομεν.
ΚΛ. ποῖα δὴ λέγεις, καὶ πῶς ἑκάτερα διαιρῶν;
ΑΘ. ὅλη μέν που χορεία ὅλη παίδευσις ἦν ἡμῖν, τούτου δʼ αὖ τὸ μὲν ῥυθμοί τε καὶ ἁρμονίαι, τὸ κατὰ τὴν φωνήν.
ΚΛ. ναί.
Ath. If such was the character of the drinking and of the recreation, would not such fellow-drinkers be the better for it, and part from one another better friends than before, instead of enemies, as now? For they would be guided by laws in all their intercourse, and would listen to the directions given to the un-sober by the sober.
Clin. True, if it really were of the character you describe.
Ath. Then we must no longer, without qualification, bring that old charge against the gift of Dionysus, that it is bad and unworthy of admittance into a State. Indeed, one might enlarge considerably on this subject; for the greatest benefit that gift confers is one which one hesitates to declare to the multitude, since, when declared, it is misconceived and misunderstood.
Clin. What is that?
Ath. There is a secret stream of story and report to the effect that the god Dionysus was robbed of his soul’s judgment by his stepmother Hera, and that in vengeance therefor he brought in Bacchic rites and all the frenzied choristry, and with the same aim bestowed also the gift of wine. These matters, however, I leave to those who think it safe to say them about deities; but this much I know,—that no creature is ever born in possession of that reason, or that amount of reason, which properly belongs to it when fully developed; consequently, every creature, during the period when it is still lacking in its proper intelligence, continues all in a frenzy, crying out wildly, and, as soon as it can get on its feet, leaping wildly. Let us remember how we said that in this we have the origin of music and gymnastic.
Clin. We remember that, of course.
Ath. Do we not also remember how we said that from this origin there was implanted in us men the sense of rhythm and harmony, and that the joint authors thereof were Apollo and the Muses and the god Dionysus?
Clin. Certainly we remember.
Ath. Moreover, as to wine, the account given by other people apparently is that it was bestowed on us men as a punishment, to make us mad; but our own account, on the contrary, declares that it is a medicine given for the purpose of securing modesty of soul and health and strength of body.
Clin. You have recalled our account admirably, Stranger.
Ath. We may say, then, that the one half of the subject of choristry has now been disposed of. Shall we proceed at once to deal with the other half in whatever way seems best, or shall we leave it alone?
Clin. What halves do you mean? How are you dividing the subject?
Ath. In our view, choristry as a whole is identical with education as a whole; and the part of this concerned with the voice consists of rhythms and harmonies.
Clin. Yes.
ΑΘ. τὸ δέ γε κατὰ τὴν τοῦ σώματος κίνησιν ῥυθμὸν μὲν κοινὸν τῇ τῆς φωνῆς εἶχε κινήσει, σχῆμα δὲ ἴδιον. ἐκεῖ δὲ μέλος ἡ τῆς φωνῆς κίνησις.
ΚΛ. ἀληθέστατα.
ΑΘ. τὰ μὲν τοίνυν τῆς φωνῆς μέχρι τῆς ψυχῆς πρὸς ἀρετὴν παιδείας οὐκ οἶδʼ ὅντινα τρόπον ὠνομάσαμεν μουσικήν.
ΚΛ. ὀρθῶς μὲν οὖν.
ΑΘ. τὰ δέ γε τοῦ σώματος, ἃ παιζόντων ὄρχησιν εἴπομεν, ἐὰν μέχρι τῆς τοῦ σώματος ἀρετῆς ἡ τοιαύτη κίνησις γίγνηται, τὴν ἔντεχνον ἀγωγὴν ἐπὶ τὸ τοιοῦτον αὐτοῦ γυμναστικὴν προσείπωμεν.
ΚΛ. ὀρθότατα.
ΑΘ. τὸ δὲ τῆς μουσικῆς, ὃ νυνδὴ σχεδὸν ἥμισυ διεληλυθέναι τῆς χορείας εἴπομεν καὶ διαπεπεράνθαι, καὶ νῦν οὕτως εἰρήσθω· τὸ δʼ ἥμισυ λέγωμεν, ἢ πῶς καὶ πῇ ποιητέον;
ΚΛ. ὦ ἄριστε, Κρησὶν καὶ Λακεδαιμονίοις διαλεγόμενος, μουσικῆς πέρι διελθόντων ἡμῶν, ἐλλειπόντων δὲ γυμναστικῆς, τί ποτε οἴει σοι πότερον ἡμῶν ἀποκρινεῖσθαι πρὸς ταύτην τὴν ἐρώτησιν;
ΑΘ. ἀποκεκρίσθαι ἔγωγʼ ἄν σε φαίην σχεδὸν ταῦτʼ ἐρόμενον σαφῶς, καὶ μανθάνω ὡς ἐρώτησις οὖσα αὕτη τὰ νῦν ἀπόκρισίς τέ ἐστιν, ὡς εἶπον, καὶ ἔτι πρόσταξις διαπεράνασθαι τὰ περὶ γυμναστικῆς.
ΚΛ. ἄρισθʼ ὑπέλαβές τε καὶ οὕτω δὴ ποίει.
ΑΘ. ποιητέον· οὐδὲ γὰρ πάνυ χαλεπόν ἐστιν εἰπεῖν ὑμῖν γε ἀμφοτέροις γνώριμα. πολὺ γὰρ ἐν ταύτῃ τῇ τέχνῃ πλέον ἐμπειρίας ἢ ἐν ἐκείνῃ μετέχετε.
ΚΛ. σχεδὸν ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν αὖ ταύτης ἀρχὴ μὲν τῆς παιδιᾶς τὸ κατὰ φύσιν πηδᾶν εἰθίσθαι πᾶν ζῷον, τὸ δὲ ἀνθρώπινον, ὡς ἔφαμεν, αἴσθησιν λαβὸν τοῦ ῥυθμοῦ ἐγέννησέν τε ὄρχησιν καὶ ἔτεκεν, τοῦ δὲ μέλους ὑπομιμνῄσκοντος καὶ ἐγείροντος τὸν ῥυθμόν, κοινωθέντʼ ἀλλήλοις χορείαν καὶ παιδιὰν ἐτεκέτην.
ΚΛ. ἀληθέστατα.
ΑΘ. καὶ τὸ μέν, φαμέν, ἤδη διεληλύθαμεν αὐτοῦ, τὸ δὲ πειρασόμεθα ἐφεξῆς διελθεῖν.
ΚΛ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
ΑΘ. ἐπὶ τοίνυν τῇ τῆς μέθης χρείᾳ τὸν κολοφῶνα πρῶτον ἐπιθῶμεν, εἰ καὶ σφῷν συνδοκεῖ.
ΚΛ. ποῖον δὴ καὶ τίνα λέγεις;
ΑΘ. εἰ μέν τις πόλις ὡς οὔσης σπουδῆς τῷ ἐπιτηδεύματι τῷ νῦν εἰρημένῳ χρήσεται μετὰ νόμων καὶ τάξεως, ὡς τοῦ σωφρονεῖν ἕνεκα μελέτῃ χρωμένη, καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἡδονῶν μὴ ἀφέξεται ὡσαύτως καὶ κατὰ τὸν αὐτὸν λόγον, τοῦ κρατεῖν αὐτῶν ἕνεκα μηχανωμένη, τοῦτον μὲν τὸν τρόπον ἅπασι τούτοις χρηστέον·
Ath. And the part concerned with bodily motion possesses, in common with vocal motion, rhythm; besides which it possesses gesture as its own peculiar attribute, just as tune is the peculiar attribute of vocal motion.
Clin. Very true.
Ath. Now the vocal actions which pertain to the training of the soul in excellence we ventured somehow to name “music.”
Clin. And rightly so.
Ath. As regards the bodily actions which we called playful dancing,—if such action attains to bodily excellence, we may term the technical guidance of the body to this end “gymnastic.”
Clin. Quite rightly.
Ath. As to music, which was referred to when we said a moment ago that the one half of choristry had been described and disposed of,—let us say the same of it now; but as to the other half, are we to speak about it, or what are we to do?
Clin. My good sir, you are conversing with Cretans and Lacedaemonians, and we have discussed the subject of music; what reply, then, to your question do you suppose that either of us will make, when the subject left still untouched is gymnastic?
Ath. You have given me a pretty clear answer, I should say, in putting this question; although it is a question, I understand it to be also (as I say) an answer—or rather, an actual injunction to give a full account of gymnastic.
Clin. You have grasped my meaning excellently: please do so.
Ath. Do it I must; and indeed it is no very hard task to speak of things well known to you both. For you are far better acquainted with this art than with the other.
Clin. That is about true.
Ath. The origin of the play we are speaking of is to be found in the habitual tendency of every living creature to leap; and the human creature, by acquiring, as we said, a sense of rhythm, generated and brought forth dancing; and since the rhythm is suggested and awakened by the tune, the union of these two brought forth choristry and play.
Clin. Very true.
Ath. Of choristry we have already discussed the one part, and we shall next endeavor to discuss the other part.
Clin. By all means.
Ath. But, if you both agree, let us first put the finishing stroke to our discourse on the use of drink.
Clin. What, or what kind of, finish do you mean?
Ath. If a State shall make use of the institution now mentioned in a lawful and orderly manner, regarding it in a serious light and practising it with a view to temperance, and if in like manner and with a like object, aiming at the mastery of them, it shall allow indulgence in all other pleasures,—then they must all be made use of in the manner described.
ΑΘ. εἰ δʼ ὡς παιδιᾷ τε, καὶ ἐξέσται τῷ βουλομένῳ καὶ ὅταν βούληται καὶ μεθʼ ὧν ἂν βούληται πίνειν μετʼ ἐπιτηδευμάτων ὡντινωνοῦν ἄλλων, οὐκ ἂν τιθείμην ταύτην τὴν ψῆφον, ὡς δεῖ ποτε μέθῃ χρῆσθαι ταύτην τὴν πόλιν ἢ τοῦτον τὸν ἄνδρα, ἀλλʼ ἔτι μᾶλλον τῆς Κρητῶν καὶ Λακεδαιμονίων χρείας προσθείμην ἂν τῷ τῶν Καρχηδονίων νόμῳ, μηδέποτε μηδένα ἐπὶ στρατοπέδου γεύεσθαι τούτου τοῦ πώματος, ἀλλʼ ὑδροποσίαις συγγίγνεσθαι τοῦτον τὸν χρόνον ἅπαντα, καὶ κατὰ πόλιν μήτε δούλην μήτε δοῦλον γεύεσθαι μηδέποτε, μηδὲ ἄρχοντας τοῦτον τὸν ἐνιαυτὸν ὃν ἂν ἄρχωσιν, μηδʼ αὖ κυβερνήτας μηδὲ δικαστὰς ἐνεργοὺς ὄντας οἴνου γεύεσθαι τὸ παράπαν, μηδʼ ὅστις βουλευσόμενος εἰς βουλὴν ἀξίαν τινὰ λόγου συνέρχεται, μηδέ γε μεθʼ ἡμέραν μηδένα τὸ παράπαν εἰ μὴ σωμασκίας ἢ νόσων ἕνεκα, μηδʼ αὖ νύκτωρ ὅταν ἐπινοῇ τις παῖδας ποιεῖσθαι ἀνὴρ ἢ καὶ γυνή. καὶ ἄλλα δὲ πάμπολλα ἄν τις λέγοι ἐν οἷς τοῖς νοῦν τε καὶ νόμον ἔχουσιν ὀρθὸν οὐ ποτέος οἶνος· ὥστε κατὰ τὸν λόγον τοῦτον οὐδʼ ἀμπελώνων ἂν πολλῶν δέοι οὐδʼ ᾗτινι πόλει, τακτὰ δὲ τά τʼ ἄλλʼ ἂν εἴη γεωργήματα καὶ πᾶσα ἡ δίαιτα, καὶ δὴ τά γε περὶ οἶνον σχεδὸν ἁπάντων ἐμμετρότατα καὶ ὀλίγιστα γίγνοιτʼ ἄν. οὗτος, ὦ ξένοι, ἡμῖν, εἰ συνδοκεῖ, κολοφὼν ἐπὶ τῷ περὶ οἴνου λόγῳ ῥηθέντι εἰρήσθω.
ΚΛ. καλῶς, καὶ συνδοκεῖ.
Ath. But if, on the other hand, this institution is regarded in the light of play, and if anyone that likes is to be allowed to drink whenever he likes and with any companions he likes, and that in conjunction with all sorts of other institutions,—then I would refuse to vote for allowing such a State or such an individual ever to indulge in drink, and I would go even beyond the practice of the Cretans and Lacedaemonians; and to the Carthaginian law, which ordains that no soldier on the march should ever taste of this potion, but confine himself for the whole of the time to water-drinking only, I would add this, that in the city also no bondsman or bondsmaid should ever taste of it; and that magistrates during their year of office, and pilots and judges while on duty, should taste no wine at all; nor should any councillor, while attending any important council; nor should anyone whatever taste of it at all, except for reasons of bodily training or health, in the daytime; nor should anyone do so by night—be he man or woman—when proposing to procreate children. Many other occasions, also, might be mentioned when wine should not be drunk by men who are swayed by right reason and law. Hence, according to this argument, there would be no need for any State to have a large number of vineyards; and while all the other agricultural products, and all the foodstuffs, would be controlled, the production of wine especially would be kept within the smallest and most modest dimensions. Let this, then, Strangers, if you agree, be the finishing stroke which we put to our discourse concerning wine.
Clin. Very good; we quite agree.
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